Minutes OpenIRC 20121107
- Upcoming ESTS meeting/bootcamp in Amsterdam
- Meeting Time/Venue
- Reporting on ongoing work
<gremid> hi to everyone, i guess we should wait another 5-10 min? *_moz is taking a seat* <_moz> hi everyone <nickl> hello <gremid> hi, nick! <_tla> okay so i was six minutes late with the minutes, but they're there now :) <nickl> hey Gregor, hey Tara :^) <gremid> i'd say we wait another 3 minutes and get started then <nickl> hi Ronald <_rhd> hi Nick <gremid> ok, welcome all to the november meeting of Interedition. <gremid> we have 2 topics on the agenda as listed on the meeting page. <gremid> any other topics? <_tla> from having just done the minutes, i see we were also supposed to have an item to think more about dissemination <_tla> and i'd like to add an item about the meeting time and venue. <gremid> ok, both noted ... <nickl> I have nothing to add to the agenda. <_moz> i haven't anything to add either <gremid> should we get started then with TOP #1: Upcoming ESTS meeting/bootcamp in Amsterdam ? <gremid> reynaert: are you there? <gremid> or ronald, maybe you could say a word or two about the state of planning, attendance etc.? *_tla has a horrible feeling that reynaert also thought the meeting is at 8* <gremid> did i mix something up regarding the time? <_tla> no you didn't <_rhd> I don´t have the latest info.. Last I heard 4 people outside of the core group had responded to the call <_tla> it's just that i got used to thinking of it as 8 local time, but this is the first time the clocks went back since we started having these meetings. <_tla> and i suspect i'm not the only one. <_rhd> right know only people from europe have reacted.. so Joris and I were wondering whether Nick or Doug would want to join? <scribe> I will unfortunately still be missing the bootcamp due to 'dissemination' at ETS/SBL in Wisconsin and Chicago in November. <nickl> Ronald, I'd like to attend, but that Thursday is Thanksgiving, which is a major holiday in the states <nickl> I suspect Doug's in a similar position but I can't speak for him <nickl> I would like to Skype in for some of it if possible <_rhd> I can understand the timing of the event is not the greatest for us people <_rhd> unfortunately those can not be changed, since it run in parallel with the conference *_tla just poked doug* <nickl> yeah, I understand completely <doug__> hello? <gremid> hi doug! <doug__> Cool! Hi <_rhd> hi <doug__> Trying webchat. Not bad <doug__> Coming to you from the TEI conference in Texas <nickl> cool :) <gremid> :-) we were just wondering whether you noticed the cfp for the upcoming bootcamp. <gremid> it is unfortunately around thanksgiving but maybe you or anybody you know would still be interested to join? <doug__> I did. Wish I could come, but the combination of American Thanksgiving, Hurricane sandy, and this week of travel makes it not feasible I'm afraid (just decided this past weeked) <doug__> Any news re: Mellon <_tla> none of which i'm aware... <gremid> any other thoughts on the bootcamp? should we address it later on, when reynaert might join? we could then come to TOP #2: Dissemination (and Mellon?) ;) <_tla> i think there was the intention for a few months now to get you & joris & gertjan all here to discuss it :) <_rhd> Gertjan is ill so he will not be able to join the chat at the moment <_tla> dissemination is something that joris also wanted on the agenda; i don't know what he had in mind. i just found it when going through last month's transcript. <_rhd> the question regarding the bootcamp that I still have is: where will all of you be staying: near the Hague of in Amsterdam? Since the event is in a different place than the institute <_rhd> of = or <gremid> i planned to stay in the hague but have not made my mind up yet <gremid> any recommendations? <_tla> i haven't decided yet either, but am leaning toward the hague <reynaert> uhoh... <reynaert> there was a time change and nobodu told me ;) <_rhd> :-) <gremid> hi reynaert <gremid> :-) <gremid> we are still at TOP #1, kind of … would you like to give a short status report? <_rhd> we were just discussing the bootcamp... it looks to be a european only event.. <reynaert> what is top#1? <gremid> oh, sorry. the bootcamp <gremid> i just put it on the agenda because it is the next upcoming event <reynaert> *nod* <gremid> wondered whether it would make sense to talk about it shortly (how many free slots, organization, remote attendance etc.) <reynaert> (sorry due to time change i had to brush teeth of an 8yrs old simultaneously) <doug__> Ooo remote attendance. That's interesting! <reynaert> first of all: do we have any of the usual suspects? *_moz raises hand* <gremid> only on the european side because the bootcamp overlaps with thanksgiving which makes it very hard for our US-based friends to attend <doug__> Was saying that a backlog of work caused by the library being closed by the hurricane for a week + travel this week coupled with American thanksgiving makes it not possible for me this time (though much regretted) <reynaert> ah.. that's a good reason <reynaert> well that's a pittu <doug__> Yeah. Was thinking I wanted to get back to the Hague soon. We'll have to schedule another soon <_rhd> tara, gregor, moritz will be able to come.. nick, doug and troy are not able to come <reynaert> i'm not sure about our technical ability to organize remote attendance tbh <_tla> and no one's heard from marco i guess? <_tla> re remote attendance, we could maybe do it ad hoc via hangout <_rhd> haven´t had a response from leif yet <doug__> I suppose it's impossible to shift the days into the following week? Travel arrangements already being made and all? <reynaert> but can we have a real discusdion on the subject that way? <_rhd> leif will join us in a moment <_rhd> he also mentions the wintertime change as a reason for not being able to join earlier <doug__> It might be a bit tricky via Google Hangout esp given the timing along with the tech limitations, but its better than nothing <reynaert> doug__: the newbees would be ratger surprised at moving the dates <doug__> Right <_tla> don't know what other options there are, given that skype doesn't support multiparty video chat anymore... <reynaert> also we are tied to a presentation at ESTS for getting the funding <gremid> i was "remotely involved" with the first bootcamp in leuven. it depends … in terms of hacking it works quite well but a lot of the communication passes by unnoticed <doug__> Didn't know if there _were_ any newbies. But of course if there are its much to late to shift things <reynaert> wechave four applications <reynaert> 1 german, 1 english, 2 italian <reynaert> the italians need sone scrutiny <doug__> That's good, anyway. The Americans would eat up more funds <reynaert> the rest is pretty much okay as far as i can see <reynaert> also Federico is pretty adamant at joining <ljo> . <reynaert> apparently we hit a subject he feels very strongly about <gremid> ^^ <doug__> Yeah, I think he's done some work on it <nickl> it is a great topic :D <gremid> ljo: are you joining the bootcamp= <gremid> ? <reynaert> anyway, at the rates between 500 and 750 i think we can grant all <ljo> Hopefully for a few days, yes <reynaert> reg Marco Petris: he really wanted to join, but had some troubles at home, and wasn't sure yet, he would let us know <_moz> pity, because he already has implemented a query language in catma <reynaert> exactly <gremid> yes <_rhd> the topic so we can expect around 8 or 9 people then? that is quite good <reynaert> anyway, even if the us part can't be there, nor marco <reynaert> we can still <reynaert> make headway with the duscussion <reynaert> and some background work i bet *gremid nods* <_tla> if you're counting numbers i should say that i've got institutional funding for my travel costs, so you don't have to spend any huygens money on me... <reynaert> i don't think we're really short on money <reynaert> it's more a pity that this is a probable one timer <reynaert> so i can't forward anything to a next year to get sone us involvement <reynaert> (apologies for typos: ipad) <gremid> may i ask whether we should move on to the next topic , looking at the time …? <doug__> Hmmm...could there be a follow up a month later or something if there's money? Billing it as a continuation of the conference work, etc. <doug__> Sure <reynaert> just one thing: i'll forward the attendants here the applications and see if anyone objects strongly <gremid> (sorry, i do not want to stop the conversation) <gremid> ok, then let's move on … TOP #2: Dissemination <reynaert> doug__: who would be able to make it at Xmas time? and adter that it's a new budget year.. <doug__> No it's good. I'm going to have to run to the session in about 10 mins <doug__> -- if we did it like the second week of December that might work <reynaert> i'll look into it, think it will be hard though <_tla> hm, december totally doesn't work for me, anyway <nickl> anyone at MLA? <doug__> Ok. Yeah. Mostly it's just interesting if there is a need to spend money *gremid raises hand* <doug__> Possibly. Not quite sure if I have money yet <doug__> But that is interesting. <nickl> cool, well, maybe I can buy you a beer Gregor, and catch up on what I missed at this bootcamp <gremid> thanks, i'd be happy to do that, and i certainly look forward to the juxtacommons demo. ;) <doug__> I will have to leave in a few minutes. Is there anything I can be helpful with before I run off? <reynaert> doug__: we still have a setup for a pitch, i'll forward it to you <doug__> cool. <reynaert> otherwise for now, don't think there's much pressing <gremid> any thoughts on the dissemination topic? <reynaert> oh.. i'm at a dariah general meeting in Vienna in decenber <doug__> To whom are we disseminating ? <reynaert> i will try to see if they are serious about spending money at dissemination <doug__> Are you presenting? <reynaert> tgis time they invited me/us <reynaert> not presenting, it's a working meeting on the Virtual Competence Centers involved <reynaert> so talking about what they ould do <reynaert> i will propose VCC2 (dissemination and research) will take in interedition aspects too <daniel__> good evening everybody <reynaert> hi daniel <gremid> hi daniel__ <reynaert> i was notified by _rhd that i was half an hour late <doug__> Afraid I must run to the next TEI thing. Email me if anything comes up that I can help with <reynaert> missed a change to winter time :) <reynaert> okay, tnx for sttending, buy! <daniel__> oh probably yes. <reynaert> ah, missed that <reynaert> so, more on dissemation? *gremid looks around* <daniel__> not yet on my side. <daniel__> we have a meeting with the French Dariah people next week <daniel__> we = TGE Adonis user committee <gremid> ok, then TOP #3: Meeting Time/Venue <_tla> right, so: <_tla> on meeting time: it seemed a lovely and globally-neutral idea to set the time according to UTC <_tla> at the time <_tla> but now that the clock has shifted and half of us got thrown off-kilter, i think "gosh 7 is a horrible time for me to make one of these meetings" <reynaert> *nod* for me too, later in the evening would be better <_tla> so i'm wondering what the rest of you think of keeping it at the 'normal' time. though some math would need to be done to see when & how this might skew the american time. <ljo> . <reynaert> +1 <_tla> nickl: you still around? do you know about when times go forward in the spring there now? <nickl> we are in standard time for only a few months nowadays <nickl> it just switched I think last weekend and goes back early spring <_tla> it's now in march sometime isn't it? <nickl> yes.. if the meeting time is given in ECT that would be fine by me <_tla> okay i googled, yes it is, and europe is the end of march, so actually taht will work <nickl> sorry CET :) <_moz> regarding 7 vs 8 CET, i don't have any strong feelings one way or the other <gremid> so we'd effectively meet one hour later, is that the idea? or should it be considerably later? <_tla> so well, anyone opposed? 8pm central europe, 7pm uk, 2pm new york, 11am california? <nickl> sounds good. <gremid> +1 <_rhd> +1 <ljo> +1 <_moz> +1 <_tla> sophie thanks you all for giving back her mummy :) <gremid> :-) <_rhd> :-) <nickl> cheer sophie <nickl> err cheers :) <_tla> the next thing i wanted to talk about is meeting venue: <_tla> i've spent the last few months being unreasonably irritated at how slow these meetings on IRC have been, how slowly the moderators react, etc. <_tla> and then last month i was a moderator myself <_tla> and got to be just as unreasonably irritated at myself <_tla> and i realized what i think is the biggest part of the problem: i can't tell how long i ought to wait for someone to speak up. <_tla> i get the sense actually that a lot of the time we're all trying to give someone else the chance to speak first. <_tla> but we don't actually know if anyone is. <_tla> so i am wondering if we should consider moving this from IRC to some system that has a "XYZ is typing..." notification <_tla> thoughts? <gremid> i have the same feeling right now. ;) <_moz> lol <ljo> I would prefer voice <nickl> thanks for saying that Tara, I have felt that way too.. you don't want to monopolize the conversation, and yet it is very quiet :) <nickl> I'd be happy to offer a conference line.. but it would be 800 number in the states <_moz> "_moz is hovering his hands over the keyboard trying to grasp the ramifications of such a change" <_tla> so well, not to be all google google google all the time, but how do you guys feel about chat there and/or hangou? <_tla> (no, mike is not paying me for this :b) <reynaert> would hangout do some 8, 9 voices? <_tla> it should do. <reynaert> really? <reynaert> well done Google in that case <reynaert> in which case we could even grant ljo 's wish <reynaert> me experience with multiple voice thingies are bad though <_tla> you can't have more than 10, but are we ever more than 10? <_tla> anyway that's the only voice option i can think of, unless we can swing an 00800 number (i can't) <gremid> Skype is no option? <_tla> skype no longer allows free multiparty talks, i believe. <daniel__> I am not sure about that <_tla> though if we decide to stick to text, i think skype might satisfy the 'is typing...' requirement. <gremid> i use to join another monthly meeting via skype, where 8-10 people are regularly joining via voice <ljo> Me too <_tla> hm, maybe it's only free multiparty video they cracked down on? i definitely remember something going away. <daniel__> yes the limitation is on videoconference <_moz> it's video <reynaert> "You can share a group call with up to 25 people, anywhere in the world, and if everyone’s on Skype it’s completely free." <_tla> oh okay <_moz> will not everyone try to speak at the same time? <_moz> i think we could just try it next time and see how it works out <gremid> no, the moderator will give ample time for everybody to have a chance to speak … ;) <_tla> _moz: yeah and we'll get all embarrased and be all 'no, after you, after you' but it will be over in seconds rather than minutes :) <_moz> :) <daniel__> but what about the minutes <_tla> hm it's a good point, we'd lose the transcripts. <reynaert> (what Daniel says :) ) <gremid> i guess somebody would have to keep a log of the voice conversation <gremid> should we try skype/ google hangout next time? who is in favor of Skype? <_tla> tbh i kind of favor text <nickl> can you record skype/google hangout? <_tla> exactly for the transcript ability. <ljo> Skype <gremid> one could record the written conversation in skype <nickl> (I have to go) I am in favor of high bandwidth meetings, how ever that is accomplished. <_moz> apparently, google can make automatic transcriptions of hangouts <_moz> says the web *gremid waves* <reynaert> bye Nick! <nickl> bye all, will stay online to lurk and read later <_moz> bye <gremid> so both Skype and Google Hangout can do video and text? <_tla> skype can't do video <_tla> only audio <gremid> sorry, voice <gremid> both can do voice and text? <_tla> yes <_tla> well, hangout not text <_tla> but i think there msut be some google group chat thing. but tbh if we go for text we may as well do skype. <gremid> anybody against skype? <daniel__> no <daniel__> my home connection wouldnt be fast enough for video <gremid> so i'd propose we try Skype the next time and see how it goes with voice and/or text there? agree? <daniel__> +1 <_moz> +1 <reynaert> +0.5 <gremid> +1 <_tla> +0.5; i want us to decide now between voice & text <_tla> for next time <_tla> _rhd: that's your meeting; any opinions? <reynaert> (i deduct 0.5, because I think the Skype GUI eats far too much screen real estate for transcripts to be usable, but that's minor.) <ljo> . <gremid> so we would have a vote for skype. <gremid> who is in favor of voice? <_rhd> lets try skype and text <_rhd> if it does not work out we could always go to voice <_rhd> but having a transcript is kinda of nice IMHO <daniel__> how does one have a non-voice meeting with text only on skype? <_moz> i'd be willing to give voice a shot <_tla> https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA1005/how-do-i-start-a-group-instant-message-in-skype-for-windows-desktop <daniel__> :) thumbs up and thanks <gremid> me too <_tla> i vote text because the transcript is so useful, especially for doing the minutes later. <_tla> and also for the attitude of openness of these meetings. <_moz> google hangouts has the option of auto transcript <_moz> https://hangout-captions.appspot.com/ <_moz> i don't know how useful it is <_tla> _moz: that is a professional service <daniel__> hangout does not do an automatic transcirpt <_tla> either you pay for live transcript or you do it yourself. <_moz> _tla: oh, i see <_moz> nevermind, then <gremid> so if there are no other opinions on the voice vs. text side, we start with text then. <daniel__> +1 *gremid tries to be more proactive as a moderator* <_tla> :) <_tla> +1 <reynaert> :) +1 <gremid> any other thoughts on the meeting venue? <_tla> it means we (gregor? ronald) should send out a message collecting skype names from interested intereditioners <gremid> normally one contact is sufficient, e.g. _rhd's because he moderates? <daniel__> yes - there is a point here in privacy. the minutes should not contain the skypename <reynaert> suppose a find&replace for skypname->first name should then be standard practice <daniel__> y <reynaert> solution is simple, keeping ourselves to it will be harder, so all should pay attention I gues <gremid> we have full names listed in the minutes online? <gremid> e.g. http://www.interedition.eu/wiki/index.php/Minutes_OpenIRC_20121003 <gremid> i like privacy, but i do not quite see how the transcripts help with this? <daniel__> no but you cant do anything with the webchat identities while some spammer can hassle you on skype <gremid> e.g. obfuscating names in there <gremid> ah, i see <gremid> thanks <gremid> any other thoughts on the meeting venue? <gremid> ok. TOP #4: Reporting on ongoing work <gremid> i could make a start. i am currently working on the standoff text model, get it updated and released for the bootcamp *_tla submitted the final paper for the tree of texts project last week, and is having a blissful couple of weeks of book-writing and neglecting all code* <gremid> so that DSL building could take it as a potential starting point <reynaert> gremid: nice <gremid> (and projects can use another proper release after all) *gremid looks at _moz* *scribe is working on user defined parallel segmentation and preparing to present our stuff to end users at ETS/SBL next week* <_tla> gremid: cool <_moz> gremid: thanks, i'm excited *reynaert is working on a NeDiMAH paper, and many institutional political sh*t (excusez les mots)* <_moz> i am applying gremid 's repository to the faust edition <daniel__> #scribe - which session? <scribe> ( _tla our edges have IDs like "edge_v35_v36", so I think if I simply check for exists('#edge_'+sourceNodeID+'_'+targetNodeID) (and swapped) I can determine parallel action. <scribe> daniel__, presenting at ETS on Thursday evening and SBL Saturday morning. Looking for session names. Are you going to be there? <daniel__> yes <_tla> scribe: you can see an example of what i'm talking about if you load the beginning of this text: http://byzantini.st/stemmaweb/relation/E7D1901A-AB49-11E1-9EA5-EEF06FF5D3E7? <scribe> daniel__, ETS: 11/15/2012 <scribe> 3:00 PM-6:10 PM <scribe> Frontier Airlines Center — 203 A <scribe> New Testament Canon, Textual Criticism, and Apocryphal Literature: 5:30 PM—6:10 PM <scribe> Troy A. Griffitts <scribe> Institut für Neutestamentliche Textforschung <scribe> Editing The Greek New Testament In A Digital Era <scribe> ugh, sorry for the flood. <daniel__> thx!I will be only at the SBL <scribe> daniel__, looking... <gremid> i have to leave now, will keep the chat open for logging purposes. thank you all for attending! <scribe> _tla, which nodes? <scribe> thanks gremid! <reynaert> tnx gremid! <daniel__> bye! <_moz> bye! <daniel__> have a nic eevening! <reynaert> same to all! <_rhd> bye <ljo> Fully occupied with hosting conference Fscons.org starting Friday and eXist-db 2.0 release.