Minutes OpenIRC 20121107

From IntereditionWiki


  1. Upcoming ESTS meeting/bootcamp in Amsterdam
  2. Dissemination
  3. Meeting Time/Venue
  4. Reporting on ongoing work



<gremid> hi to everyone, i guess we should wait another 5-10 min?
*_moz is taking a seat*
<_moz> hi everyone
<nickl> hello
<gremid> hi, nick!
<_tla> okay so i was six minutes late with the minutes, but they're there now :)
<nickl> hey Gregor, hey Tara :^)
<gremid> i'd say we wait another 3 minutes and get started then
<nickl> hi Ronald
<_rhd> hi Nick
<gremid> ok, welcome all to the november meeting of Interedition.
<gremid> we have 2 topics on the agenda as listed on the meeting page.
<gremid> any other topics?
<_tla> from having just done the minutes, i see we were also supposed to have an item to think more about dissemination
<_tla> and i'd like to add an item about the meeting time and venue.
<gremid> ok, both noted ...
<nickl> I have nothing to add to the agenda.
<_moz> i haven't anything to add either
<gremid> should we get started then with TOP #1:  Upcoming ESTS meeting/bootcamp in Amsterdam ?
<gremid> reynaert: are you there?
<gremid> or ronald, maybe you could say a word or two about the state of planning, attendance etc.?
*_tla has a horrible feeling that reynaert also thought the meeting is at 8*
<gremid> did i mix something up regarding the time?
<_tla> no you didn't
<_rhd> I don´t have the latest info.. Last I heard 4 people outside of the core group had responded to the call
<_tla> it's just that i got used to thinking of it as 8 local time, but this is the first time the clocks went back since we started having these meetings.
<_tla> and i suspect i'm not the only one.
<_rhd> right know only people from europe have reacted.. so Joris and I were wondering whether Nick or Doug would want to join?
<scribe> I will unfortunately still be missing the bootcamp due to 'dissemination' at ETS/SBL in Wisconsin and Chicago in November.
<nickl> Ronald, I'd like to attend, but that Thursday is Thanksgiving, which is a major holiday in the states
<nickl> I suspect Doug's in a similar position but I can't speak for him
<nickl> I would like to Skype in for some of it if possible
<_rhd> I can understand the timing of the event is not the greatest for us people
<_rhd> unfortunately those can not be changed, since it run in parallel with the conference
*_tla just poked doug*
<nickl> yeah, I understand completely
<doug__> hello?
<gremid> hi doug!
<doug__> Cool!  Hi
<_rhd> hi
<doug__> Trying webchat.  Not bad
<doug__> Coming to you from the TEI conference in Texas
<nickl> cool :)
<gremid> :-) we were just wondering whether you noticed the cfp for the upcoming bootcamp.
<gremid> it is unfortunately around thanksgiving but maybe you or anybody you know would still be interested to join?
<doug__> I did.  Wish I could come, but the combination of American Thanksgiving, Hurricane sandy, and this week of travel makes it not feasible I'm afraid (just decided this past weeked)
<doug__> Any news re: Mellon
<_tla> none of which i'm aware...
<gremid> any other thoughts on the bootcamp? should we address it later on, when reynaert might join? we could then come to TOP #2: Dissemination (and Mellon?) ;)
<_tla> i think there was the intention for a few months now to get you & joris & gertjan all here to discuss it :)
<_rhd> Gertjan is ill so he will not be able to join the chat at the moment
<_tla> dissemination is something that joris also wanted on the agenda; i don't know what he had in mind. i just found it when going through last month's transcript.
<_rhd> the question regarding the bootcamp that I still have is: where will all of you be staying: near the Hague of in Amsterdam? Since the event is in a different place than the institute
<_rhd> of = or
<gremid> i planned to stay in the hague but have not made my mind up yet
<gremid> any recommendations?
<_tla> i haven't decided yet either, but am leaning toward the hague
<reynaert> uhoh...
<reynaert> there was a time change and nobodu told me ;)
<_rhd> :-)
<gremid> hi reynaert
<gremid> :-)
<gremid> we are still at TOP #1, kind of … would you like to give a short status report?
<_rhd> we were just discussing the bootcamp... it looks to be a european only event..
<reynaert> what is top#1?
<gremid> oh, sorry. the bootcamp
<gremid> i just put it on the agenda because it is the next upcoming event
<reynaert> *nod*
<gremid> wondered whether it would make sense to talk about it shortly (how many free slots, organization, remote attendance etc.)
<reynaert> (sorry due to time change i had to brush teeth of an 8yrs old simultaneously)
<doug__> Ooo remote attendance.  That's interesting!
<reynaert> first of all: do we have any of the usual suspects?
*_moz raises hand*
<gremid> only on the european side because the bootcamp overlaps with thanksgiving which makes it very hard for our US-based friends to attend
<doug__> Was saying that a backlog of work caused by the library being closed by the hurricane for a week + travel this week coupled with American thanksgiving makes it not possible for me this time (though much regretted)
<reynaert> ah.. that's a good reason
<reynaert> well that's a pittu
<doug__> Yeah.  Was thinking I wanted to get back to the Hague soon.  We'll have to schedule another soon
<_rhd> tara, gregor, moritz will be able to come.. nick, doug and troy are not able to come
<reynaert> i'm not sure about our technical ability to organize remote attendance tbh
<_tla> and no one's heard from marco i guess?
<_tla> re remote attendance, we could maybe do it ad hoc via hangout
<_rhd> haven´t had a response from leif yet
<doug__> I suppose it's impossible to shift the days into the following week?  Travel arrangements already being made and all?
<reynaert> but can we have a real discusdion on the subject that way?
<_rhd> leif will join us in a moment
<_rhd> he also mentions the wintertime change as a reason for not being able to join earlier
<doug__> It might be a bit tricky via Google Hangout esp given the timing along with the tech limitations, but its better than nothing
<reynaert> doug__: the newbees would be ratger surprised at moving the dates
<doug__> Right
<_tla> don't know what other options there are, given that skype doesn't support multiparty video chat anymore...
<reynaert> also we are tied to a presentation at ESTS for getting the funding
<gremid> i was "remotely involved" with the first bootcamp in leuven. it depends … in terms of hacking it works quite well but a lot of the communication passes by unnoticed
<doug__> Didn't know if there _were_ any newbies.  But of course if there are its much to late to shift things
<reynaert> wechave four applications
<reynaert> 1 german, 1 english, 2 italian
<reynaert> the italians need sone scrutiny
<doug__> That's good, anyway.  The Americans would eat up more funds
<reynaert> the rest is pretty much okay as far as i can see
<reynaert> also Federico is pretty adamant at joining
<ljo> .
<reynaert> apparently we hit a subject he feels very strongly about
<gremid> ^^
<doug__> Yeah, I think he's done some work on it
<nickl> it is a great topic :D
<gremid> ljo: are you joining the bootcamp=
<gremid> ?
<reynaert> anyway, at the rates between 500 and 750 i think we can grant all
<ljo> Hopefully for a few days, yes
<reynaert> reg Marco Petris: he really wanted to join, but had some troubles at home, and wasn't sure yet, he would let us know
<_moz> pity, because he already has implemented a query language in catma
<reynaert> exactly
<gremid> yes
<_rhd> the topic so we can expect around 8 or 9 people then? that is quite good
<reynaert> anyway, even if the us part can't be there, nor marco
<reynaert> we can still
<reynaert> make headway with the duscussion
<reynaert> and some background work i bet
*gremid nods*
<_tla> if you're counting numbers i should say that i've got institutional funding for my travel costs, so you don't have to spend any huygens money on me...
<reynaert> i don't think we're really short on money
<reynaert> it's more a pity that this is a probable one timer
<reynaert> so i can't forward anything to a next year to get sone us involvement
<reynaert> (apologies for typos: ipad)
<gremid> may i ask whether we should move on to the next topic , looking at the time …?
<doug__> Hmmm...could there be a follow up a month later or something if there's money?  Billing it as a continuation of the conference work, etc.
<doug__> Sure
<reynaert> just one thing: i'll forward the attendants here the applications and see if anyone objects strongly
<gremid> (sorry, i do not want to stop the conversation)
<gremid> ok, then let's move on … TOP #2: Dissemination
<reynaert> doug__: who would be able to make it at Xmas time? and adter that it's a new budget year..
<doug__> No it's good.  I'm going to have to run to the session in about 10 mins
<doug__> -- if we did it like the second week of December that might work
<reynaert> i'll look into it, think it will be hard though
<_tla> hm, december totally doesn't work for me, anyway
<nickl> anyone at MLA?
<doug__> Ok.  Yeah.  Mostly it's just interesting if there is a need to spend money
*gremid raises hand*
<doug__> Possibly.  Not quite sure if I have money yet
<doug__> But that is interesting.
<nickl> cool, well, maybe I can buy you a beer Gregor, and catch up on what I missed at this bootcamp
<gremid> thanks, i'd be happy to do that, and i certainly look forward to the juxtacommons demo. ;)
<doug__> I will have to leave in a few minutes.  Is there anything I can be helpful with before I run off?
<reynaert> doug__: we still have a setup for a pitch, i'll forward it to you
<doug__> cool.
<reynaert> otherwise for now, don't think there's much pressing
<gremid> any thoughts on the dissemination topic?
<reynaert> oh.. i'm at a dariah general meeting in Vienna in decenber
<doug__> To whom are we disseminating ?
<reynaert> i will try to see if they are serious about spending money at dissemination
<doug__> Are you presenting?
<reynaert> tgis time they invited me/us
<reynaert> not presenting, it's a working meeting on the Virtual Competence Centers involved
<reynaert> so talking about what they ould do
<reynaert> i will propose VCC2 (dissemination and research) will take in interedition aspects too
<daniel__> good evening everybody
<reynaert> hi daniel
<gremid> hi daniel__
<reynaert> i was notified by _rhd that i was half an hour late
<doug__> Afraid I must run to the next TEI thing.  Email me if anything comes up that I can help with
<reynaert> missed a change to winter time :)
<reynaert> okay, tnx for sttending, buy!
<daniel__> oh probably yes.
<reynaert> ah, missed that
<reynaert> so, more on dissemation?
*gremid looks around*
<daniel__> not yet on my side.
<daniel__> we have a meeting with the French Dariah people next week
<daniel__> we = TGE Adonis user committee
<gremid> ok, then TOP #3: Meeting Time/Venue
<_tla> right, so:
<_tla> on meeting time: it seemed a lovely and globally-neutral idea to set the time according to UTC
<_tla> at the time
<_tla> but now that the clock has shifted and half of us got thrown off-kilter, i think "gosh 7 is a horrible time for me to make one of these meetings"
<reynaert> *nod* for me too, later in the evening would be better
<_tla> so i'm wondering what the rest of you think of keeping it at the 'normal' time. though some math would need to be done to see when & how this might skew the american time.
<ljo> .
<reynaert> +1
<_tla> nickl: you still around? do you know about when times go forward in the spring there now?
<nickl> we are in standard time for only a few months nowadays
<nickl> it just switched I think last weekend and goes back early spring
<_tla> it's now in march sometime isn't it?
<nickl> yes.. if the meeting time is given in ECT that would be fine by me
<_tla> okay i googled, yes it is, and europe is the end of march, so actually taht will work
<nickl> sorry CET :)
<_moz> regarding 7 vs 8 CET, i don't have any strong feelings one way or the other
<gremid> so we'd effectively meet one hour later, is that the idea? or should it be considerably later?
<_tla> so well, anyone opposed? 8pm central europe, 7pm uk, 2pm new york, 11am california?
<nickl> sounds good.
<gremid> +1
<_rhd> +1
<ljo> +1
<_moz> +1
<_tla> sophie thanks you all for giving back her mummy :)
<gremid> :-)
<_rhd> :-)
<nickl> cheer sophie
<nickl> err cheers :)
<_tla> the next thing i wanted to talk about is meeting venue:
<_tla> i've spent the last few months being unreasonably irritated at how slow these meetings on IRC have been, how slowly the moderators react, etc.
<_tla> and then last month i was a moderator myself
<_tla> and got to be just as unreasonably irritated at myself
<_tla> and i realized what i think is the biggest part of the problem: i can't tell how long i ought to wait for someone to speak up.
<_tla> i get the sense actually that a lot of the time we're all trying to give someone else the chance to speak first.
<_tla> but we don't actually know if anyone is.
<_tla> so i am wondering if we should consider moving this from IRC to some system that has a "XYZ is typing..." notification
<_tla> thoughts?
<gremid> i have the same feeling right now. ;)
<_moz> lol
<ljo> I would prefer voice
<nickl> thanks for saying that Tara, I have felt that way too.. you don't want to monopolize the conversation, and yet it is very quiet :)
<nickl> I'd be happy to offer a conference line.. but it would be 800 number in the states
<_moz> "_moz is hovering his hands over the keyboard trying to grasp the ramifications of such a change"
<_tla> so well, not to be all google google google all the time, but how do you guys feel about chat there and/or hangou?
<_tla> (no, mike is not paying me for this :b)
<reynaert> would hangout do some 8, 9 voices?
<_tla> it should do.
<reynaert> really?
<reynaert> well done Google in that case
<reynaert> in which case we could even grant ljo 's wish
<reynaert> me experience with multiple voice thingies are bad though
<_tla> you can't have more than 10, but are we ever more than 10?
<_tla> anyway that's the only voice option i can think of, unless we can swing an 00800 number (i can't)
<gremid> Skype is no option?
<_tla> skype no longer allows free multiparty talks, i believe.
<daniel__> I am not sure about that
<_tla> though if we decide to stick to text, i think skype might satisfy the 'is typing...' requirement.
<gremid> i use to join another monthly meeting via skype, where 8-10 people are regularly joining via voice
<ljo> Me too
<_tla> hm, maybe it's only free multiparty video they cracked down on? i definitely remember something going away.
<daniel__> yes the limitation is on videoconference
<_moz> it's video
<reynaert> "You can share a group call with up to 25 people, anywhere in the world, and if everyone’s on Skype it’s completely free."
<_tla> oh okay
<_moz> will not everyone try to speak at the same time?
<_moz> i think we could just try it next time and see how it works out
<gremid> no, the moderator will give ample time for everybody to have a chance to speak … ;)
<_tla> _moz: yeah and we'll get all embarrased and be all 'no, after you, after you' but it will be over in seconds rather than minutes :)
<_moz> :)
<daniel__> but what about the minutes
<_tla> hm it's a good point, we'd lose the transcripts.
<reynaert> (what Daniel says :) )
<gremid> i guess somebody would have to keep a log of the voice conversation
<gremid> should we try skype/ google hangout next time? who is in favor of Skype?
<_tla> tbh i kind of favor text
<nickl> can you record skype/google hangout?
<_tla> exactly for the transcript ability.
<ljo> Skype
<gremid> one could record the written conversation in skype
<nickl> (I have to go) I am in favor of high bandwidth meetings, how ever that is accomplished.
<_moz> apparently, google can make automatic transcriptions of hangouts
<_moz> says the web
*gremid waves*
<reynaert> bye Nick!
<nickl> bye all, will stay online to lurk and read later
<_moz> bye
<gremid> so both Skype and Google Hangout can do video and text?
<_tla> skype can't do video
<_tla> only audio
<gremid> sorry, voice
<gremid> both can do voice and text?
<_tla> yes
<_tla> well, hangout not text
<_tla> but i think there msut be some google group chat thing. but tbh if we go for text we may as well do skype.
<gremid> anybody against skype?
<daniel__> no
<daniel__> my home connection wouldnt be fast enough for video
<gremid> so i'd propose we try Skype the next time and see how it goes with voice and/or text there? agree?
<daniel__> +1
<_moz> +1
<reynaert> +0.5
<gremid> +1
<_tla> +0.5; i want us to decide now between voice & text
<_tla> for next time
<_tla> _rhd: that's your meeting; any opinions?
<reynaert> (i deduct 0.5, because I think the Skype GUI eats far too much screen real estate for transcripts to be usable, but that's minor.)
<ljo> .
<gremid> so we would have a vote for skype.
<gremid> who is in favor of voice?
<_rhd> lets try skype and text
<_rhd> if it does not work out we could always go to voice
<_rhd> but having a transcript is kinda of nice IMHO
<daniel__> how does one have a non-voice meeting with text only on skype?
<_moz> i'd be willing to give voice a shot
<_tla> https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA1005/how-do-i-start-a-group-instant-message-in-skype-for-windows-desktop
<daniel__> :) thumbs up and thanks
<gremid> me too
<_tla> i vote text because the transcript is so useful, especially for doing the minutes later.
<_tla> and also for the attitude of openness of these meetings.
<_moz> google hangouts has the option of auto transcript
<_moz> https://hangout-captions.appspot.com/
<_moz> i don't know how useful it is
<_tla> _moz: that is a professional service
<daniel__> hangout does not do an automatic transcirpt
<_tla> either you pay for live transcript or you do it yourself.
<_moz> _tla: oh, i see
<_moz> nevermind, then
<gremid> so if there are no other opinions on the voice vs. text side, we start with text then.
<daniel__> +1
*gremid tries to be more proactive as a moderator*
<_tla> :)
<_tla> +1
<reynaert> :) +1
<gremid> any other thoughts on the meeting venue?
<_tla> it means we (gregor? ronald) should send out a message collecting skype names from interested intereditioners
<gremid> normally one contact is sufficient, e.g. _rhd's because he moderates?
<daniel__> yes - there is a point here in privacy. the minutes should not contain the skypename
<reynaert> suppose a find&replace for skypname->first name should then be standard practice
<daniel__> y
<reynaert> solution is simple, keeping ourselves to it will be harder, so all should pay attention I gues
<gremid> we have full names listed in the minutes online?
<gremid> e.g. http://www.interedition.eu/wiki/index.php/Minutes_OpenIRC_20121003
<gremid> i like privacy, but i do not quite see how the transcripts help with this?
<daniel__> no but you cant do anything with the webchat identities while some spammer can hassle you on skype
<gremid> e.g. obfuscating names in there
<gremid> ah, i see
<gremid> thanks
<gremid> any other thoughts on the meeting venue?
<gremid> ok. TOP #4: Reporting on ongoing work
<gremid> i could make a start. i am currently working on the standoff text model, get it updated and released for the bootcamp
*_tla submitted the final paper for the tree of texts project last week, and is having a blissful couple of weeks of book-writing and neglecting all code*
<gremid> so that DSL building could take it as a potential starting point
<reynaert> gremid: nice
<gremid> (and projects can use another proper release after all)
*gremid looks at _moz*
*scribe is working on user defined parallel segmentation and preparing to present our stuff to end users at ETS/SBL next week*
<_tla> gremid: cool
<_moz> gremid: thanks, i'm excited
*reynaert is working on a NeDiMAH paper, and many institutional political sh*t (excusez les mots)*
<_moz> i am applying gremid 's repository to the faust edition
<daniel__> #scribe - which session?
<scribe> ( _tla our edges have IDs like "edge_v35_v36", so I think if I simply check for exists('#edge_'+sourceNodeID+'_'+targetNodeID) (and swapped) I can determine parallel action.
<scribe> daniel__, presenting at ETS on Thursday evening and SBL Saturday morning.  Looking for session names.  Are you going to be there?
<daniel__> yes
<_tla> scribe: you can see an example of what i'm talking about if you load the beginning of this text: http://byzantini.st/stemmaweb/relation/E7D1901A-AB49-11E1-9EA5-EEF06FF5D3E7?
<scribe> daniel__, ETS: 11/15/2012
<scribe> 3:00 PM-6:10 PM
<scribe> Frontier Airlines Center — 203 A
<scribe> New Testament Canon, Textual Criticism, and Apocryphal Literature: 5:30 PM—6:10 PM
<scribe> Troy A. Griffitts
<scribe> Institut für Neutestamentliche Textforschung
<scribe> Editing The Greek New Testament In A Digital Era
<scribe> ugh, sorry for the flood.
<daniel__> thx!I will be only at the SBL
<scribe> daniel__, looking...
<gremid> i have to leave now, will keep the chat open for logging purposes. thank you all for attending!
<scribe> _tla, which nodes?
<scribe> thanks gremid!
<reynaert> tnx gremid!
<daniel__> bye!
<_moz> bye!
<daniel__> have a nic eevening!
<reynaert> same to all!
<_rhd> bye
<ljo> Fully occupied with hosting conference Fscons.org starting Friday and eXist-db 2.0 release.