Minutes OpenIRC 20121003

From IntereditionWiki


  1. Minutes of last two meetings...?
  2. Upcoming ESTS meeting/bootcamp in Amsterdam
  3. Funding situation update
  4. Offering webinars on the tools we have (D. ben Ezra)
  5. Reporting on ongoing work
  6. A. O. B.



Chair: Tara Andrews

Attending: Gregor Middell, Joris van Zundert, Moritz Wissenbach, Leif-Joran Olsson, Nick Laiacona, Thomas Kollatz, Daniel Stoekl ben Ezra, Ronald Dekker

Reminder to post meeting minutes

Nick to supply minutes from August meeting

Tara to email Marco to ask about minutes from September meeting

Rotating chair assignments

  • November: Gregor
  • December: Ronald
  • January: Joris

Upcoming ESTS conference / bootcamp

The bootcamp will be held on 21–24 November in The Hague; the ESTS conference will be primarily in Amsterdam with other events (e.g. the NeDIMAH workshop) also in The Hague. Travel between the two is about 40 minutes. There is €5000 available for bursaries.

It was agreed that we need a call for participation ASAP, but in order to produce that we need a theme. Suggestions included data modeling and publication/presentation frameworks, with a possible sub-theme of integration (that is, pulling together some of the things we already have.) Resolved that those who were interested would continue to discuss offline to decide on the theme and the details of the call.

Funding situation

An NEH startup grant, led by Tanya Clement, was submitted at the end of September to seek funds for a pair of bootcamps in the USA; the stated goal is integration of CollateX and the Versioning Machine.

Joris has a draft pitch that could be used to attract the interest of funders; he will circulate it to those interested.


Daniel brought up the topic of dissemination; for all that Interedition has accomplished in terms of tools and hacking progress, there is very little known about it outside the interedition community. After some discussion the idea was mooted of holding interactive webinars, which would themselves become documentary films available on the website. Joris pointed out that DARIAH has the means to support that sort of dissemnination; it was resolved that he would approach DARIAH contacts, including Susan Schreibman, while Daniel would approach TGE-Adonis, and that there would be an item on the next agenda to discuss dissemination further.

Ongoing activities

We all remain busy; Joris with Delta3D, Moritz with presentation of the Faust edition, Tara with Stemmaweb, Nick with Juxta Commons.


20:01 [Users #interedition]
20:01 [@_tla] [@gremid] [@reynaert] [ _moz] [ ljo] [ nickl] 
20:01 -!- Irssi: #interedition: Total of 6 nicks [3 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 3 normal]
20:01 <@_tla> hi guys
20:01 <@_tla> suppose we can take the usual few minutes to see who shows up
20:02 <@_tla> meanwhile i've posted the current agenda at http://interedition.eu/wiki/index.php/Minutes_OpenIRC_20121003 - if you have anything to add to it please do.
20:03 <@reynaert> hi all
20:05 <@gremid> nickl: congratulations for the emop grant, you are collaborating with laura man dell, right?
20:05 -!- kollatz_thomas [~Kollatz_T@kref-4d09534c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #interedition
20:06 < nickl> hey Gregor.. yes, actually on a conference call with them now in fact :)
20:06 <@gremid> :)
20:06 <@_tla> okay, shall we get started?
20:06 < ljo> .
20:07 < nickl> sounds good
20:07 <@gremid> +1
20:07 <@_tla> first point is the minutes from the last meeting, which are...not there. :) nor are the ones from the previous month. so i was hoping i could poke nick & marco respectively to add them (just summarizing briefly the main things arising)
20:08 <@_tla> though that doesn't work so well with marco not being here.
20:08 <@reynaert> mail him?
20:09 <@_tla> guess so.
20:09 <@_tla> as for matters arising...anyone have any points from last meeting that they remember and want to bring up?
20:10 <@reynaert> is wiki gardening something we should take another look at?
20:10 -!- daniel___ [4ee0be83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #interedition
20:11 <@_tla> hi daniel
20:11 < daniel___> hi tara
20:11 < daniel___> good evening everybody
20:11 <@_tla> re wiki gardening, didn't someone agree some time ago to take that on?
20:11 -!- _rhd [~Ronald@5ED2B611.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #interedition
20:11 <@gremid> yes, i did
20:11 < _moz> me too
20:12 < _moz> who is adminstering the wiki, btw
20:12 <@reynaert> and i think I played some vague role too
20:12  * reynaert is
20:12 < _moz> there is a problem when you request an account
20:12 < _moz> it generates a link like this
20:13 < _moz> http://beintereditioneu.huygens.knaw.nl/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RequestAccount&action=confirmemail&wpEmailToken=d3d58f903658b084b393f04beda6ca33
20:13 < _moz> i was able to fix it (hah) but it might (have) deter(red) someone
20:13 <@gremid> yes, i encountered the same problem at times when editing a page: the base url of the wiki install does not seem to be set
20:14 < _moz> and then it took quite a while for the manual approval for my account
20:14 <@gremid> but that did not keep me from gardening, it is more about time; i'll put some effort into it and report back next month
20:14 <@reynaert> okay, I'll relay that to our network admoin
20:15 < _moz> first of all as an excuse for me not gardening of course, but its also bad for interested people
20:15 <@_tla> as for the minutes...
20:15 <@_tla> nickl: do you think you might add something to the 'august' page in the near future?
20:16 < _moz> maybe it could be switched to automatically accept accounts
20:16 <@gremid> (gardening sounds very contemplative, should try that ...)
20:16 <@reynaert> _moz: sorry, can't do. I had it like that. It generates too much spamming of the wiki.
20:16 < _moz> i see.
20:16 <@reynaert> there's even spammers requesting accounts now (go figure :)
20:17 < nickl> I have minutes prepared, I was just not able to upload them when I went to do it.. and haven't been able to get back since
20:17 <@_tla> ah
20:17 <@_tla> well if you mail them to me i'd be happy to paste them up.
20:17 < nickl> ok will do
20:17 <@_tla> thanks!
20:18 < nickl> np thanks
20:18 <@_tla> so we have minutes, wiki...anything else on 'matters arising'?
20:18 -!- ljo [~ljo@host-95-195-134-203.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
20:18 <@reynaert> who's up for chairing in the november meeting?
20:20 <@_tla> gremid s
20:20 <@gremid> (i think i was, but have to look at the minutes)
20:20 <@gremid> ok, then it is me
20:20 <@_tla> ronald for dec, joris for jan
20:20 <@reynaert> right, I remember we actually decided that (sorry)
20:21 <@_tla> :)
20:21 <@_tla> so next up is the ESTS conference next month
20:21 <@_tla> the bootcamp to be held there
20:21 <@_tla> and the tools demo? training? talk? we are giving in return.
20:21 <@_tla> reynaert: you want to cover that?
20:22 <@reynaert> I'll give it a shot
20:22 <@reynaert> so we decide on the dates already, right?
20:22 <@reynaert> 22-24 november 2012
20:23 <@reynaert> or do we still want to shift/change these?
20:23 <@_tla> last month's transcript says 21-24
20:23 <@reynaert> oh, then we need to change the wiki/Upcoming_meetings
20:24 <@reynaert> that has 22-24
20:24 <@reynaert> anyway those dates would be fine
20:24 <@reynaert> venue will be the Huygens institute in The Hague
20:24 <@reynaert> the actual ESTS is Amsterdam, but we don't trust their facilities (wifi specifically)
20:25 <@_tla> oh, so does that mean a trip on the train to give this talk?
20:25 <@reynaert> yes a 40 minutes ride I'm afraid
20:25 <@_tla> do the trains back & forth have wifi? :)
20:25 <@reynaert> some ues
20:26 <@reynaert> as for bursaries we have 5000 Euro to spend on them
20:26 <@reynaert> which I propose to carve up into 10 bursarie of 500
20:26 <@reynaert> we need to think about the theme
20:26 <@reynaert> whether to make it a closed call (invite people)
20:26 <@reynaert> or open call
20:27 <@reynaert> theme seems most important to me for now
20:27 <@reynaert> any ideas on this?
20:28 <@gremid> how about data modeling? :-)
20:28 <@_tla> :) i like it
20:28 <@gremid> seems to be on the agenda in the field and we have not have it yet
20:29 <@reynaert> so how would that be expressed in concrete.. err.. products?
20:30 <@_tla> as for the call, my own preference would be for open, but i guess that would require getting the call out ~now. don't know what the rest of you think
20:31 <@gremid> this could reach from usage of different persistent models in DH (SQL, NoSQL, XML databases, document databases) to the advantages of processing certain models (hierarchical/XML-DOM-like vs. relational models vs. navigational/graph-like)
20:33 <@gremid> its very broad i'm afraid ...
20:33 < _moz> i like the theme too :)
20:34 <@_tla> while i know doug would disagree, i don't see anything wrong with broad themes for our bootcamps at the moment, since it seems to me the best way to keep momentum going.
20:35 <@reynaert> any one opposed to it? any alternative suggestions?
20:35 <@reynaert> the theme of the ESTS itself btw is Editing Fundamentals: Historical and Literary Paradigms in Source Editing
20:35 <@reynaert> (which tbh sounds a bit like 'duh duh duh' to me, but well..)
20:37 <@reynaert> I guess we could make 'data modeling' sound like an important Editing Fundamental
20:39 <@_tla> ...okay, no other comments?
20:39 <@reynaert> _rhd: wonder if you have any thoughts on the theme..?
20:40 <@_tla> we should move on in the interests of time anyway - we should discuss this further over the next few days though for anyone interested
20:40 < _rhd> theme is ok with me. I have some strong opinions on when one should use what ;)
20:41 < _rhd> but there should be something in it for everyone I think
20:42 <@gremid> i mean the other option would obviously be some area of editing we have not touched yet
20:42 <@gremid> like interfacing with libraries, metadata ...
20:43 <@reynaert> _tla ca you note down: theme, open call, output (just as reminders for todos)?
20:43 <@gremid> or publishing/ presentation frameworks
20:44 <@_tla> i think publishing/presentation deserves a bootcamp for sure, but i think a productive discussion / hackathon on data modeling is more...attainable by november.
20:45 < _moz> we already had one on "integration", didn't we?
20:46 < _moz> what i mean by that is, we could try to devote a bootcamp on trying to pull some things together into some kind of distribution
20:46 < _moz> or set the direction for that
20:46 <@reynaert> i propose actually to make that a sub theme for this one, good point moz
20:47  * reynaert (looks at the clock)
20:48 -!- ljo [~ljo@host-95-195-134-203.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #interedition
20:48 <@_tla> well, i'll put all this in the minutes for sure, and would suggest that people interested in helping to flesh it out hang about the channel for the next few days :)
20:48 <@reynaert> I'll draft a call tomorrow and circulate it
20:48 <@_tla> but we do need to get a move on i'm afraid
20:48 <@_tla> so #3 is an update on the funding situation - is there any movement there?
20:49 <@_tla> i know that an NEH startup grant has gone in, driven by tanya clement and also possibly by doug, that is focused on integration of collateX and the versioning machine
20:49 <@_tla> but other than that i don't know of anything new.
20:49 <@reynaert> *nod* that's a fingers crossed
20:49 <@_tla> oh sorry i meant the *application* has gone in, yes
20:50 <@reynaert> i have drafted a draft pitch that we could use to attract interest of funders
20:50 <@reynaert> i'd like to circulate it for comments and feedbackt
20:50 <@reynaert> will do so after this meeting I guess?
20:50 <@_tla> *nod*
20:50 <@gremid> +1
20:51 < daniel___> what about dissemination of what you have done at interedition via webinars or something like that?
20:51 <@_tla> daniel___: that was point #4 on the agenda :)
20:51 < daniel___> -1
20:51 <@_tla> you want to take that?
20:52 <@_tla> (that is, you want to discuss it?)
20:52 < daniel___> only if #3 is closed
20:52 < daniel___> did not see the agenda - sorry :(
20:52 <@_tla> ah - it's at the link in the channel topic. http://interedition.eu/wiki/index.php/Minutes_OpenIRC_20121003 
20:53 <@_tla> anything else on funding?
20:53 < daniel___> thx
20:54 <@_tla> right, i declare #3 closed
20:55 <@_tla> daniel, would you like to talk about the webinars you proposed?
20:56 < daniel___> ok - I suggested to Joris and Tara to further disseminate interedition tools and ongoing or future projects either via direct meetings (but its not easy to find a common date)
20:56 < daniel___> and its not easy to have one person knowing everything about all tools
20:56 < daniel___> so it maybe easier to inform people outside of the project
20:56 < daniel___> when you can stay in your house or office
20:57 < daniel___> and join all the experts in a virtual way
20:57 < daniel___> repetitive interactive (webinar) and/or with documentary films as becomes habit
20:58 < daniel___> reading the interedition wiki does not seem to give the latest informations
20:58 < daniel___> of what you have already done and are doing
20:58 < daniel___> done
20:59 <@reynaert> so, do I understand a webinar to mean a recorded powerpoint presentation for instance?
20:59 <@reynaert> or do you envision a more interactive format?
21:01 < daniel___> well yes and no.
21:01 <@reynaert> i think it is certainaly true we lack in updated and accessible info on many aspects
21:01 < daniel___> yes, as any presentation you need a starting point
21:01 < daniel___> but it is important to be interactive and have room to address questions
21:01 <@reynaert> any way that would result in more maintainable dissemination would be good
21:01 < daniel___> I am thinking of people who have never seen digital humanities
21:01 <@reynaert> s/way/means/
21:02 <@reynaert> *nod*
21:02 < daniel___> so people who really need to see what they can do faster or better by using dh tools
21:02 <@reynaert> I think a number of the Interedition related people and tools could be shown in such a way
21:03 <@reynaert> I am going to use a word in this channel that will raise some eyebrows
21:03 <@reynaert> but DARIAH has means of supporting such dissemination
21:04 <@reynaert> we could talk to people about that
21:04 <@reynaert> daniel: are you tight to a very specific timeline?
21:04 < daniel___> no
21:04  * _tla wonders if there are any thoughts from the others
21:05 <@reynaert> okay, I'm thinking of prodding Susan Schreibman about this, and see what she thinks
21:05 < daniel___> As a user I work closely with the TGE-Adonis, the big French infrastructure
21:05 <@reynaert> she might be able to help us with this maybe
21:05 < daniel___> and asking around there seem many people that would potentially be interested in getting to know better what is out there
21:05 < daniel___> certainly
21:06 < daniel___> textgrid has nice short films but could also have more.
21:06 < daniel___> I think too many people on my side work too isolated
21:07 < daniel___> and I am not talking about the people not yet interested in DH
21:07 <@reynaert> *nod*
21:07 <@reynaert> so these are researchers/practioners that also know how to code, or to use digital tools?
21:07 < daniel___> so dissemination of the knowledge about collaborative ventures could very much reinforce this way of proceding
21:08 < daniel___> no
21:08 < daniel___> not necessarily
21:08 < daniel___> they have an idea about a database, about lets say inscriptions or vases, or statues or archaeological sites
21:09 < daniel___> and then they ask for financing an IT engineer to write personnally customized products
21:09 <@reynaert> that is very recognizable
21:10 < daniel___> there is a gap of knowledge between the people in the center and the people on the outskirts
21:10 < daniel___> we need people and things like films and dissemination webinars to bridge this gap
21:11 <@reynaert> *nod* I'm getting more of a picture now of the kind and level of dissemination you are talking about
21:11 <@reynaert> i think several of us could indeed at various points in time could play a role in that
21:12 <@reynaert> but also we need some more gentle (and broader) introductions
21:12 < daniel___> yes, not of IT to IT but of IT to linguist or classicist or medieval historian
21:12 <@reynaert> that is certainly something to think about
21:13 <@reynaert> i will indeed talk to Susan about this, as she has broad experience on that kind of dessimination
21:13 <@reynaert> not sure on other actions right now we could conceive of
21:13 <@reynaert> apart of most certainly update our wiki :)
21:13 < daniel___> there are the big conferences in the field
21:14 < daniel___> like SBL for anything to do with the Bible
21:14 < daniel___> or kalamazoo for the medievalists
21:14 < daniel___> or oxford for the patristics
21:14 < daniel___> trying to have a plenary address...
21:15 < daniel___> yes, the interedition wiki would be a very important source of info
21:15 <@reynaert> re plenary address: that is not up to us though, for that one needs to be invitede, no?
21:16 < daniel___> yes
21:16 <@reynaert> *nod*
21:16 < daniel___> there are DH sessions on the European SBL
21:17 <@_tla> so...guys? gregor? ronald? moritz? does this sound like something good to you guys?
21:18 <@gremid> i certainly think that we (= interedition) could do better in terms of disseminating our results.
21:19 <@reynaert> +1
21:19 <@gremid> and i like webinars as a means to do that because it is rather informal and often delivers hands-on-knowledge
21:20 <@_tla> also i do think it's a good solution to the problem that no single one of us is really up to presenting the whole range of tools and projects.
21:20 <@reynaert> (I don't want to cut the discussion short, but we should try to keep the meeting to a timebox -which we have broken already :)
21:20 <@_tla> so i guess we'll let the minutes show that joris will speak to susan about it, and see what support dariah might offer, and we go from there?
21:21 <@reynaert> also we should have an item on the next agenda to think more about dissemination somehow
21:21 <@reynaert> (not very concrete that I know)
21:21 <@_tla> noted
21:22 <@_tla> in the interests of time let's move on to #5 - what you guys are up to
21:22 <@_tla> those of you who are still awake and following anyway ;)
21:23 <@reynaert> I presented http://eccentricity.org/delta3d/ in Leuven as you know
21:23 < _moz> i am at the moment trying to make the faust edition presentable and play around with span based text models
21:23 <@reynaert> there was interest
21:23 <@reynaert> and so now I'm trying to find time for delivering support and maintenanve
21:24  * _tla is in the same boat as reynaert
21:24 <@_tla> i released stemmaweb as of the leuven meeting, and now people are actually visiting it, and some even using it. crazy. :)
21:24 <@reynaert> moz: that reminds me of a question daniel asked me, but should be posted here (sec)
21:25 < _moz> (sorry guys, gotta run in 3 minutes)
21:25 < nickl> we launched juxtacommons.org this week
21:26 <@reynaert> quoting Daniel: "Any suggestion for an excellent XML merger programme that is able to merge two xmls for the same text where each xml serves two different purposes?"
21:26 < nickl> it is in beta now
21:26 < _moz> reynaert: yes, we can
21:26 < _moz> sorry, i gotta go, i'll keep my client logging
21:27 < _moz> gregor should know a thing or two about that
21:27 <@gremid> :)
21:27 <@reynaert> (thought so :)
21:27 <@gremid> that is our problem in the faust edition, "XML merging" so to speak, and we use collation for that
21:28 < _rhd> @nickl: congratulations on the release of the beta
21:28 <@reynaert> +1
21:29 < nickl> @_rhd: thank you Ronald!
21:29 < daniel___> +1
21:30 <@_tla> +1
21:30 < nickl> please come check it out and send us feedback :)
21:30 <@_tla> might i suggest that daniel grill gregor in email, and we move on to any other business?
21:31 <@gremid> +1
21:31 <@_tla> so then, any other business?
21:33 <@_tla> i'll take that as a 'no' then, and close the meeting. thank you all for being here!